Theirself or Themself?

1/8/2014

There seems to be a pronominal gap in the English language which arises when attempting to express the singular neuter reflexive (where 'one' is not the subject). Take a look at the following sentences:

  - One ought to meditate by oneself.
  - I drove 1400 miles by myself.
  - He walked there by himself.
  - She accomplished the feat by herself.

These all seem straightforward enough. But what about when you are writing about someone whose gender is unspecified, and in a sentence where clearly the pronoun 'one' does not apply?

- Someone climbed Mount Everest by theirself.
- The self-aware individual perceives themself.

While both 'theirself' and 'themself' are sometimes used in this situation, neither one is recognized as correctly spelled by word processors or is listed in modern dictionaries. At first glance it may seem that both are worthy candidates for this role. However - in my opinion - theirself is far more accurate. I am not entirely certain, but I think it sounds more correct to me because 'their' is sometimes used in a singular context whereas 'them' is not. For example:

  - Someone was walking their dog.
  - The person was eating their dinner.
  - The child was doing their homework.

While it could be argued that the acceptance of 'themselves' as well as 'theirselves' means that 'themself' is just as valid as 'theirself', to me 'themself' is nothing more than an awkward monstrosity due to its juxtaposition of something undeniably plural (them) with something almost-always singular (self).

English - however - is extremely flexible, so in the end each person will have to decide for theirself which is correct.

Update [Sept 2019]: Merriam-Webster has added singular 'they,' 'theirself,' and also 'themself' to their dictionary:

  - Definition of Theirself
  - Definition of Themself
  - Singular 'They'

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15 Comments

Herm

1/7/2014 10:08:52 pm

(Actually, 'theirself' and 'themself' both sound unnatural to me because they're both shoehorning a plural word into a singular meaning.)

I guess you're semi-extrapolating from me/my/myself to they/their/theirself here?

I base my thinking on 'him' and 'her', given that we're trying to construct something third-person and singular, but 'he' ('do it to him') matches better with 'they' ('do it to them') than 'she' does ('do it to her'), so I ignore 'she' and extrapolate from 'he', also paying attention to how 'they' behaves as a plural.

Reasoning version one, based on 'he/him':
I found him -> he found himself
I played with him -> he played by himself
I found them -> they found themself
I played with them -> they played by themself

Reasoning version two, based on 'they' plural:
They (pl.) caught it themselves -> they (sing.) caught it themself
They (pl.) dressed themselves -> they (sing.) dressed themself

As I said, I don't particularly care for the sound of 'themself' either, but it feels more consistent.

Terry

3/4/2016 11:07:16 pm

i feel required to state that gender need not apply in reality, as such there has to be some non gender specific way to make a statement. and i am not saying this as some sort of white knight avenger of some crap or another, sometimes gender is just unknown or inapplicable. and the issue is not about a group, it is about an individual. should there be something that cannot be communicated accurately and concisely in any language? i'm pretty sure languages change specifically because there shouldn't. what is a english acceptable way around. i use themself. some use theirself. so i am with you on that. if "they" did something it could be one person without being gender specific just like it can reference a single organization, themself is about the best extrapolation from that without going gender specific.

RNG

1/7/2014 10:19:48 pm

Actually, I encounter 'them' used as singular pretty often. From wiktionary:

- If someone comes and asks for the ticket, just give it to them.
- If one of my patients calls, please bring them their dinner.
- If a student has an inappropriate question, whatever you do, do not berate them.

All of the above seem perfectly normal to me. My dictionary on hand (New Oxford American) gives:

• [ singular ] referring to a person of unspecified sex: how well do you have to know someone before you call them a friend?

john.nevill@gmail.com

1/7/2014 11:49:50 pm

For me, themself for singular and themselves for plural sounds natural. Theirself and theirselves sound strange, but acceptable.
It's interesting that for both first and second person the possessive works where the subject owns the self like "myself" instead of "meself" and "yourself" instead of "youself", but when we hit third person and we know the gender we use him/her in himself/herself.
This would support "Themself" being more natural sounding over "Theirself".

JR Peck

1/8/2014 12:12:33 am

I think they both sound so awkward that it is better to just change the sentence rather than forcing it.

Someone climbed Mount Everest alone.
The self-aware individual perceives their own thoughts and feelings. (Or whatever the author is trying to convey.)

Themself and theirself both sound like a child that hasn't learned to speak properly yet.

Jeff Bridges

2/12/2019 11:46:18 am

"The self-aware individual perceives their own thoughts and feelings."

You're still using "their", a plural pronoun, as a singular pronoun. You may as well have just used theirself here; you haven't fixed the sentence at all by changing it, just made it wordy and awkward.

The natural sentence would be using "himself", "herself", or "itself" which are either gendered or imply non-human aspects. Once we accept "their", "them", and "they" as singular gender-neutral pronouns (which you clearly have... and such use dates back to the 1370s), then there's really no good logical argument against "theirself" or "themself". The only argument is preference.

Holland

4/9/2015 05:17:39 am

Thank you very much for this though-provoking post. Having used 'theirself' myself, I was inclined to agree with you, but after reading the comments, I began thinking of the difference in usage between 'them' and 'their,' and I came to the following conclusion:
Their is possessive, so them=him, and their=his, therefore theirself=hisself, which is used, though it is not considered proper English. You can see it more clearly if we use other possessives paired with '-self': hersself, itsself, one'sself. The main exception I can think of is 'yourself,' where 'your' is possessive, and 'youself' would be wrong.
'Theirself' still sounds normal to me, but in plural form the dictionary calls 'themselves' the standard and calls 'theirselves' a dialect variation, so I think I'll have to defer to standard usage and call 'themself' the proper singular neuter reflexive.
Oh, and the self-aware individual perceives themself, as well as their Self, they just don't perceive theirself.

malloryerik

10/2/2015 08:08:04 pm

Reflexive pronouns in English are kind of a mess, borrowing from both object pronouns and possessive pronouns.

But, for consistency, because we use "themselves" and not "theirselves," it makes more sense to me to use "themself" and not "theirself."

Otherwise we have a strange situation of "theirself" and "themselves" adding more contradiction to an already muddled part of the language.

Jamie

1/9/2016 08:13:51 pm

Also, there are trans/nonbinary people who are only comfortable with having non-specified pronouns applied to themself..

I realize this post is two years old,but I think it is important to recognize other points to this.

Dave

11/21/2016 03:28:30 am

Sorry…just wrote Hello to check if comment actually sent.
Well as a teacher of English in a foreign country I have been asked about Themselves, themself and theirself and theirselves.
The self refers to one…singular…and they and them can refer to plural. Would it not be easier to just begin to accept that when used together that the SELF takes preference over whether or not is is plural or singular. We could just move on from the mess and stay singular as we know that the self is individual. Case closed and teaching the language would be less stressful ? There are too many inconsistancies in English and millions of students get confused quickly. There shouldn't be a mathematical solution to any language as wee need difference in cultures but it would help a lot as English has borrowed so much from so many languages that now it seems to confuse ITSELF from time to time.

Dave

11/21/2016 03:40:53 am

Sorry for the spelling issues above…. :)
Theirself - 1250-1300; Middle English; formed on analogy of myself.
Perhaps we could also consider that from now on we don't compound the words like Basketball, Football and we just teach it separated - their self or their-self….maybe ? It is up to ourselves as native speakers to change it to suit. Each generation develops itself more in language changing. Who would have ever thought that the word GOOGLE would have made it into the dictionary as a verb ?

Lillian

12/14/2017 10:31:30 am

Who wrote this? Everything about this is incorrect. Neither theirself nor themself is a word. "Their" also can never be used in singular form. To represent possession in singular form, one would utilize "his" or "her" (i.e., himself, herself). The correct word you are looking for to represent a plural possession is "themselves". Please educate "yourself" before posting something ridiculous. There are young impressionable minds out there that actually read this stuff.

1/5/2018 12:14:45 pm

It appears you failed to understand the original post. This is not a question of correct usage to represent possession when one's gender is determined, but in fact when it can apply to either one. This is a fabulous question. One that young impressionable minds would love to know the answer to.

Julian

6/3/2018 10:00:37 pm

Hi,

I come from Germany and I'm not speaking English that well. I came across this thread accidentaly and I didn't realize, how unnatural theirselves/theirself is sounding to native speakers. Since there seems to be a gap in this matter you guys can't just say theirselves is incorrect because it sounds so. It is amazingly interesting but it's weird no one cares about it.

So, assumed there is no official agreement, which obviosly is the fact, let's only go through this logically beginning with focus on the pronoun, we all agree with - 'myself' don't you think it means 'my self' (possesive form of I + noun)? So when it's 'myself' in first person, the second person form must be 'yourself'. I think we all still agree so far but let's continue with the third person singular (he/she/it). The three possesive pronouns of he/she/it is his/her/its. That's why it's so weird you're considering 'himself' to be the very correct pronoun.

Sorry, but as a German it makes no sense using 'himself'. I'd use him like 'I like him' or 'She should get him a coffee". I really can't get why to combine 'him' with 'self'. Exactly the same for the third person plural (They).

Agreeing on with this and it's reasons would be nice. Pure logically I'm right, am I?

Dan

10/28/2019 09:42:28 am

I am in favour of “theirself” and “theirselves” being formally recognised as words

Think about it. “Themselves” is not only collective and distributive; it’s quantitative.

“Theirself” is individualistic, possessive—and qualitative.

As for “oneself,” that’s ok, but it’s often (critically) inadequate.

“Oneself” implies that a person is mainly a number.

“Theirself” implies self-possession.

The English language is fundamentally biased against the individual. No wonder it’s so hard for people to be theirselves.

Theirself or Themself?

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